the Fly Clone Project

I have been tweaking my guitar action for the last week or so. Last night, I set the relief to be quite flat (less than .006 at 12th with 1st and 24th fretted). Was very surprised that there is little to no buzz anywhere, save for a sitar (basically dead) at the 3rd fret on the high E.

I took a credit and found that the frets are uneven when straight edge is laid across 3rd, 4th, 5th fret. Seems that that 4th fret is high — but only at the high E location. If I bend the G on high E, I can get a clear note. There is only straight edge rock when laid across 3rd, 4th, 5th around high E location.

Does this seem like fret needs to be pressed in at edge? Or fretboard warp? It does not appear to be coming out of its place at the edge… I would very much like not to have part of fret removed, only to find that something else was causing it to be high.

If you’re not wanting to spot-level the next fret, then uploading photos may lead someone here to spot a different issue.

But if your relief and action are indeed as you want it everywhere, with the exception of the high e buzzing against the top of the fourth fret when fretted at 3, then it sounds as though you need some minor fret leveling. For what it’s worth, I’ve gotten comfortable with doing fretwork on my Flys - At the end of the day, the parts are intended to be maintained and tweaked as on any other guitar. It’s just that Ken designed those days to last way longer than twenty four hours.

I’ve had similar issues on Flys where individual fret ends under the low E were seemingly too high. I ultimately found no cause for them other than fretwork QC tolerances being similar to other mass-produced guitars; in which the curvature of the fret ends after crowning ended up not being as consistent in their level as the middle section of the frets. This is also partly why USM switched to a 14” constant radius; due to the conical radius spec leaving less room for error, while ultimately proving inconsequential in execution (insofar as finished guitars put out by the Buffalo Grove factory were measured as exhibiting a constant radius regardless of whether they were spec’d as conical 10-13” or 14”).

It may be a fret lifting. Quite easy to fix, and I would check if the buzz goes away when pressure is applied to the offending fret.

Gregsaab wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:21 am I have been tweaking my guitar action for the last week or so. Last night, I set the relief to be quite flat (less than .006 at 12th with 1st and 24th fretted). Was very surprised that there is little to no buzz anywhere, save for a sitar (basically dead) at the 3rd fret on the high E.

I took a credit and found that the frets are uneven when straight edge is laid across 3rd, 4th, 5th fret. Seems that that 4th fret is high — but only at the high E location. If I bend the G on high E, I can get a clear note. There is only straight edge rock when laid across 3rd, 4th, 5th around high E location.

Does this seem like fret needs to be pressed in at edge? Or fretboard warp? It does not appear to be coming out of its place at the edge… I would very much like not to have part of fret removed, only to find that something else was causing it to be high.

I take it you are referring to a Fly model.

For years, I thought all (pre-refined) Fly models had flawless fret work (I bought mine used 15 years ago). After years of ignoring buzzing issues with low action, a tech told me a fret was not lifting, but simply needed to be levelled. The issue is now gone.

N.b. Before Parker closed, I had my Fly set up/repaired for years at two different Parker authorized shops…

Here are some pictures of frets - fretboard edge is looking pretty rough…

Let me know if there is a better angle to take pictures at.

Gregsaab wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:42 pm Here are some pictures of frets - fretboard edge is looking pretty rough…

Let me know if there is a better angle to take pictures at.

Were the fretboard edges like this when you bought the guitar?

A higher-res picture (if you can) may help diagnose the issues. I’d take pictures again (both sides), but be more level with the fretboard (and more close up to the problem fret).

Really had trouble taking better shots.. here are a few more.

The fret is definitely not loose — I pressed it down while fretting @ 3rd fret with no change to fretting out.

Seems that filing that one spot down is the way to go. What tools does this require? Diamond file, various grit sandpaper,..?

Edit: looks like all my images are compressed, might host then post links.

Also, this is a 2011 Mojo.

Perhaps another plot twist. I started looking for gaps rather than just level rocking. Note, all of these level measurements are limited to high e.

Frets 1-3 are not even, fret 2 barely doesn’t touch
Frets 2-4 are not even, fret 3 doesn’t touch
Frets 3-5 are uneven, fret 3 is lower than fret 4 and rocks
Frets 4-6 are not even, fret 5 does not touch
Frets 5-7 are not even, fret 6 does not touch
Frets 6-8 are not even, slight rock
Frets 7-9 are even

Looks like some maintenance-leveling is in order. Note that, even if any of these problem fret areas are due to the fingerboard chipping out and/or delaminating, you’re unfortunately in the position of treating the symptoms, rather than the potential cause (which would involve replacing the entire fingerboard and regluing the frets, followed by leveling and crowning work, anyway).

If you do end up leveling: What I use on my Flys is a leveling beam with a strip of 400 grit sandpaper adhered to it. But Fly frets are so much harder than anything else, that they require extra polishing work to get rid of scratches and chatter marks - So you may want to go as gentle as 600 grit and take the extra time with that, in order to minimize the work needed to remove those scratches once things are level and checked to be sure buzz has been eliminated. From there, use your preferred crowning file that’s no rougher than 300 grit (I use StewMac diamond files that cut in both directions - but only because I have them from when I used to work on guitars professionally).

You use increasingly fine papers and micro meshes (e.g. 800, 1200, 1800, 2000, etc.) to clean up any scratches and chatter marks left by the previous steps, then finish with either steel wool (most labor intensive, but poses least danger to frets and fingerboard), polishing compound buffed with a wheel on a drill or dremel (most effective, but runs the risk of heating up a fret until its glue bond weakens), or (what I use) the StewMac ceramic rubber polishing wheels on a dremel (done with one or two second passes in one direction, across the entire fret top - Brown, then green).

You’ll of course want the entire fretboard masked off with tape, and use a guard made from a business or credit card when using a polishing tool - Tool marks, dings, and scratches to the CF board can’t really be repaired. And before attempting any of this, you’ll want the truss adjusted to make the neck as straight as you can get it once the strings are off; because the nut was installed and cut at the factory for a neck spec’d with zero relief.

I also want to stress that, for as scary as some of the chipping at the edge of the fingerboard seems when you’re discovering that different frets are slightly out-of-level, your Fly’s fretwork was never actually intended to be *perfect* when it left the factory - Just to ship out without buzz at the factory-spec’d action (which, at the time, was lower than the factory spec of most other brands). A fret rocker is a helpful diagnostic tool, but it’s unreasonable to expect any guitar fretboard you didn’t level yourself to have any three frets be perfectly level with one another - It’s too labor-intensive for such minute attention to detail to be done at most factories, especially considering that variations in neck angle and adjustments in relief change the plane the frets are on, anyway. The only manufacturer I’ve seen with QC tolerances this tight is Vigier; because their necks have a factory-set relief that cannot be adjusted - They eliminate that variable during construction.

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:38 pm ...when you’re discovering that different frets are slightly out-of-level, your Fly’s fretwork was never actually intended to be *perfect* when it left the factory…

That’s a great point, Marc. Flys certainly come close (and that fret material is really strong!!), but you’re right that a little something something here and there is not unrealistic. Of course, the first time my tech suggested fret-leveling on one of my Flys, I shouted “blasphemy!” and threw Holy Water on him. In hindsight, I may have over-reacted, as he was right: it did need a little touch-up.

#FretIssues

Happened to see this referenced, concerning the chipped fretboard edges:

billy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:49 pm For the paint chips on the side of the neck, use a sharpie to blend the color and then put a little ca (super) glue over it. You can gently sand and polish the glue out to be nearly invisible (per YouTube vids), or just try to apply as smoothly as you can to help prevent it from chipping further.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rTVScFJoe24

Thanks guys. I think I’m going to attempt the superglue trick to prevent further chipping & send it out to be PLEK’ed. The fret’s are not an issue if more relief is added, but I would quite like to have a flat neck with no buzz — especially given it’s only a few frets.

I’ve been there - Three of the six Flys I’ve owned needed fret work to get dialed in where I wanted them to be. Please let us know how it works out. And in case the person PLEKing your Mojo isn’t aware before measuring, your 2011 Fly fretboard should have a constant 14” radius that will be very straightforward to work on.

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:08 pm I’ve been there - Three of the six Flys I’ve owned needed fret work to get dialed in where I wanted them to be. Please let us know how it works out. And in case the person PLEKing your Mojo isn’t aware before measuring, your 2011 Fly fretboard should have a constant 14” radius that will be very straightforward to work on.

Yeah, I was just thinking about the constant radius — good call.

Gregsaab wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:04 pm I’m going to…send it out to be PLEK’ed.

I’m very curious to hear how this goes, so please let us know!! Good luck!!

I agree with earlier comments in general, but that chipping on the side looks like the fretboard could be delaminating.

There were some others from around that same time period.

Use a piece of masking tape (like a handle) near fret 4 to see if there’s any movement in the edge of the fretboard when you pull gently on the tape.

If so, that’s probably your issue. Do NOT try to wick superglue under it. Superglue works at first but fails quickly and makes it worse. Also skip any fret leveling until the fretboard is stable.

Let me know if the edge moves at all and hopefully there’s another way to fix it.

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:08 pm I’ve been there - Three of the six Flys I’ve owned needed fret work to get dialed in where I wanted them to be. Please let us know how it works out. And in case the person PLEKing your Mojo isn’t aware before measuring, your 2011 Fly fretboard should have a constant 14” radius that will be very straightforward to work on.

Based on the ‘summary of fly changes…’ doc? It looks like it wasn’t until 2014 where the radius was made a constant 14”. So, my 2011 would have a 10-13 conical, si?

Gregsaab wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:32 pm Based on the ‘summary of fly changes…’ doc? It looks like it wasn’t until 2014 where the radius was made a constant 14”. So, my 2011 would have a 10-13 conical, si?

I can’t speak for that date - I was under the impression that USM had switched over to 14” by 2011. The only way to tell for certain with your guitar is to measure the fingerboard radius at the first and last fret with a radius gauge (you can print a gauge on paper and cut it out here). For what it’s worth, I and VJ have 2011 Flys with a 14” radius.

Yeah—I don’t think we have an official date, but things did seem to change at USM after 2011. The change in contour from 10 - 13” is gradual, but you can feel and see the difference. The 14” fixed contour is very noticeable in my opinion, and technically speaking: unless the spacing at the nut is the same as at the bridge, the fingerboard is supposed to have some conical taper. Having said that: it takes a lot of work to get that contour shaped properly and while both the Ken-era Flys and early USM Flys do have a 10-13” radius, the quality of that transition may have been inconsistent (especially later on).

Measurements on Ken-era Flys:
10.3” radius arc at first fret
12” at 12th fret
13” at 24th
14” at bridge

If chipping is due to sloppy playing (pushing string off board) - would I be safe to not treat the fretboard, assuming that string never slips over fretboard?

The frets are all intact. Is the best course of action to apply superglue, sand, then send out to PLEK? Plan to send it out in near future (after Deluxe comes in).