“What’s This Worth?” Thread

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mmmguitar
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

A seller known for the “Google my store and message me there” practice of always needing to have the most expensive Reverb Fly listing (typically ranging from $5,000 to 9,000) is back with this pre-refined Artist for an arbitrary $6,940, plus $150 shipping, plus sales tax.

For reference, the most expensive Artist ever to sell through Reverb was this refined model sold by the self-described “Biggest Parker Collector in the World” (themselves known for flipping chop shop Flys for inflated prices prior to their seller account being disabled) for $4667.35+tax.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pm …this pre-refined Artist for an arbitrary $6,940, plus $150 shipping, plus sales tax.
Yeah…these types of listings don’t exactly foster the sense of community many of us Fly enthusiasts here and on FB are interested in facilitating. 🫤

I get it though: not everyone sees “Fly ownership” as a community, and there is potentially a lot of money to be made from the communities and others by flipping these rarer Flys. There aren’t any Fly Artists up for sale right now, so if you want one: this seller has set the new “going rate”. There are “haves” and “have nots”, and the bet is that there’s some “have not” out there willing to pay this amount to be a “have”.

If anyone is open to hearing my idealistic rationale/plea for an alternative to this sort of dealing:
* You desired to own this guitar and bought it at some price
* This guitar brought you a sense of fulfillment
* You are now willing to part with this guitar
* Others desire to own this guitar just as you once did

Can the guitar not be resold to someone else that desires it at a similar price? It’s the same desire you once had that motivated you to buy the instrument in the first place, afterall. Is there a need to make a significant profit off of having previously fulfilled that same desire for this instrument?

Of course, some people view guitars as “investments” 🤷
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

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vjmanzo wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:47 pmOf course, some people view guitars as “investments” 🤷
These particular flipper practices/sentiments/rationalizations have become common in many markets, and seemed to have pervaded the entire guitar market once the djent subculture made the “blues lawyer” gear hoarding mentality applicable to any brands which could successfully be marketed as “boutique” (resulting in many independent guitar/amp/pedal builders taking on more orders than they could keep up with, and subsequently dropping off the grid with the deposits of a lot of people).

I suppose the “good” news is that this Artist listing only sticks out because it is now at odds with the more recent downward trend of Fly prices (Over the past 30 days, I observed several sitting until the asking price was reduced to the $2,500 range), as opposed to what a few vocal individuals had spent the past two years striving to normalize in bad faith (e.g. “Flys are the new crypto, “value is only going to increase”, “$5,000 for a Mojo is totally worth it because no more will be produced”, “Buy as many Flys as you can now so you don’t regret it when they’re worth twice as much”, etc.) for seemingly no reason other than they didn’t have enough faith in their own promises to *wait* for their Flys to appreciate in value.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:20 pm “Buy as many Flys as you can now so you don’t regret it when they’re worth twice as much”
Of course by now I think we’ve all read that recent Wall Street Journal special edition issue that outlined steps to move out of mid-cap growth funds and diversify in vintage Steinbergers…

😉
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

Oh yeah: I’d ramble even more if this was a Steinberger Clone site.

Last year, I sold a Steinberger on Reverb for what I felt was a fair price, and wasn’t the least bit surprised to see the buyer immediately relist it for double what they’d paid. They never had any intention of playing the thing - They were too preoccupied with playing out their Wolf of Steinberger Street broker fantasies. I don’t know what it eventually resold for, but it sat at the inflated price for over a month.

I suppose the nicest thing I can say is that observing the Steinberger resale market between 2013 and the present informed my expectations for Parker Guitars from 2015 onward.

On a different Steiny note: I’m hoping Ned will finally announce a release for this under NS Design after ten years of teasing prototypes:

6B52CB21-4878-45CE-9BA0-D3B349CE419E.jpeg

I’ve been daydreaming about replacing the neck EMG with a Sustainiac, the other two with Fluence Classics, then rerouting the piezos to feed a Hexpander board. And I’m eager to try any new “calibrated” trem of Ned's.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:36 pm They never had any intention of playing the thing - They were too preoccupied with playing out their Wolf of Steinberger Street broker fantasies.
There’s absolutely nothing “rock and roll” about this. 🤦‍♂️
mmmguitar wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:20 pm …many independent guitar/amp/pedal builders taking on more orders than they could keep up with, and subsequently dropping off the grid with the deposits of a lot of people.
If you’re saying the customers getting duped are the profiteering would-be hoarding/flipper opportunists then, admittedly, there is something kinda “rock and roll” about this! 😎
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

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vjmanzo wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:02 pm If you’re saying the customers getting duped are the profiteering would-be hoarding/flipper opportunists then, admittedly, there is something kinda “rock and roll” about this! 😎
Rather than paint all sides as guilty or complicit, I’ll just say that 100% of these situations I’ve seen or read about as they occurred day-to-day seem to have been completely avoidable; with many of the customers ending up having been defrauded multiple, consecutive times because they put multiple deposits down on simultaneous builds of unproven products from unproven builders, with no plan as to how to pay for the completed guitars/amps/pedals past flipping them upon completion with a pitch of “avoid the three year waitlist and buy my newly completed build with specs no one would ever want!”

What was especially insidious was customers selling their place in line once word started getting out that red flags had begun rearing their heads - They were effectively selling strangers their place under the bus.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

Wow—what a mess!
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by Patzag »

This whole topic is rather putrid.
I have never sold an instrument for more than I originallly paid, except a Gibson 347 that I was sold for $800 and resold years later for $1000! (I still kick myself for letting it go, but by that time I was playing a Fly and had no room for a plank of wood in my inventory!) ((What a moron!))

I have been dreaming of getting an Artist and a Nylon. The Artist because I wonder if it would dethrone my Classic as the ultimate playing machine. The Nylon because I want to be able to do acoustic gigs but I am addicted to the Fly.

I had been considering selling every guitar I own (bar my Classic) to finance an Artist. Not sure if I’ll even get in the ballpark. I’m not a rich man by anyones standard.

But this speculative B/S is making that more remote each day. I really hope this ends soon!
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

Didn’t mean to bum everyone out! :lol:
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by Patzag »

Lol! You didn’t.

I actually appreciate the data herein and your correct early assessment of some of the more unsavory members of the Parker trade. I’ve had personal dealings with he who shall not be named and he was positively gloating about buying a virtually new Deluxe for 1K and flipping it for more than 3 times the price. That’s what (who) I mean by putrid.

Like I said, hopefully this will go away at some point.
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

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Patzag wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:07 am hopefully this will go away at some point.
I promise that there’s optimism in this thought: There are a few specific people in the FB groups who almost exclusively use those forums as pretense to brag about how much more their Flys are worth today than when they bragged yesterday (particularly when they can’t resist the temptation to pretend to “appraise” an unflattering photo of someone else’s beater Fly full of issues as somehow being higher in sale value than the highest current Reverb listings).

The thing about these guys is that they’re fickle: The moment they finally get bored enough to attach themselves to another get-rich-slow subculture, I expect that they won’t be able to resist switching gears toward publicly discouraging others interested in the brand with rhetoric to do with how Parker Guitars is “old news”, “for collectors only, at this point”, and how there’s no “money” in owning one.

Speaking as someone who regards indignation as a weathervane of truth, I feel such a shift would serve to alert the community that greed is finally playing a smaller role in discourse; and owners’ expectations for resale might return to more realistic heights (such as acknowledging that these things are capable of DEpreciating - I know all my Flys should be depreciated to an extent; because I actually play them).

I’m not expecting that day to arrive overnight - It might come down to requiring a new brand or SKU with a “forward-thinking” label to entice a few Parker enthusiasts to offload some of the gear they were compelled to hoard like acorns during the pandemic.

In any case, I’m right there with you. If I happen to snag an Artist and not bond with it, you get first dibs. :mrgreen:
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

I’m guilty of not shining much of a light on the MIDIFly (the niche of the niche Parker SKUs, second only to the Belew model).

This heather gray one caught my eye, due to certain aesthetic embellishments which the seller seems to feel neither adds nor detracts from its value. Being as they’re soliciting offers, it’s unlikely we’ll see the final sale price. Nonetheless, let’s see if we can’t establish a price range for these specialized instruments.

Update: MIDIFly covered in doodles sold after four offers for undisclosed amount.

And we’ll see what the high bid for this black prerefined Deluxe ends up being.

Update: Winning bid was 2,310.75+tax. Trending down from this listing, which sold in June for $2,961.50+tax after five bids.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

This seemingly haze-free Natural ’06 Mojo with no bar, tools, or accessories has had its asking price dropped from $3,075 to $2,925 + tax. Being as the seller feels their Fly is worth more than cheaper listings in which a bar and/or springs are included, I feel perhaps they could stand to spend the $27.50 to include a bar or even take a free photograph of what the spring situation is.

Update: Dropped to $2,575 before selling on the 18th.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:13 am Natural ’06 Mojo
For reference, the current asking price of $2850 is exactly what I paid for my first Fly Mojo new from the factory in 2005. 👀 Since then, I’ve purchased other Mojos for under $1800; the Mojo we used for the Fly 12-string mod came for Guitar Center in summer 2018, and I paid $1750 for it. My brother bought a near-mint Mojo in fall 2019 off eBay for $1450.

I have no affiliation with this listing.

I have a feeling this one will go for around what the seller is now asking even without the case candy—to me, it’s a bit on the higher side for a used Mojo, and as I mentioned: I’ve had luck finding Mojos in good condition for under $2k, but I remember seeing people asking this much for a Mojo five years ago; not unreasonable, I think, for a “Buy It Now” price—encouraging to see that the Make an Offer option is there as well. Shipping price of $75 is also refreshing—seems altogether like a good seller with g feedback.

Altogether, for me, it’s nice to see (I think!) the market value coming back down a bit from the time when an instrument like this would be listed for $5k, but then again: I don’t own/view Flys as investments.
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by mmmguitar »

Well said. Now that we're seeing more asking prices seemingly grounded in reality, discussing the matter of whether a depreciated Fly is priced "fairly" or "accurately" relative to a competing listing in which there may be a difference of hundreds of dollars is going to take us through some nebulous terrain; in which the listing pertinent qualifications of our argument (which I thank you for presenting) may prove necessary.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by Patzag »

Apparently Nice Plum Deluxe at a apparent fair price:

https://reverb.com/item/59807235-parker-fly-deluxe-1999
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

Love that Italian Plum finish! 🤤 And this Fly seems like it’s in near-perfect condition! Although, I’m always more than a little hesitant to buy a high-priced item from someone without feedback 😬
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by Patzag »

vjmanzo wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:16 am Love that Italian Plum finish! 🤤 And this Fly seems like it’s in near-perfect condition! Although, I’m always more than a little hesitant to buy a high-priced item from someone without feedback 😬
Yeah. But this is a in person pickup only. I guess that precludes shipping scam.
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Re: “What’s This Worth?” Thread

Post by vjmanzo »

Ahh good point!
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