How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

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Presence76
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How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by Presence76 »

So I set the trem of my 2001 Classic to be full floating.
I didn’t check everything but I did notice I only have a half step bend up on the 2nd string.
Is that normal?
If not, is there adjustments I could make?
Thanks in advance!
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vjmanzo
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by vjmanzo »

It kinda depends on the string gauge you’re using and the angle of the spring, but you definitely don’t get the same range as, for example, on a Steinberger (in my experience).

This guide may be helpful. Let us know!

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mmmguitar
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by mmmguitar »

Pull-up results for B string on my three Flys (all in standard tuning, springs anchored on “loosest” slot, with varying string heights but very low action):

‘96 Deluxe, 9-46 strings, 9 spring: approx. 15 cents shy of 3 semitones
‘97 Deluxe, 9-46 strings. 9 spring: 20 cents over 2 semitones
‘11 Supreme, 10-46 strings, 10 spring: 4 cents over 2 semitones

When pulling up on a floating trem, the G string detunes the most. Typically, the B will pull up around a semitone lower than the G, and the e a semitone lower than B. A common strat trem setup will have the e pull up to F, the B to Db, and the G to Bb. Every Fly trem I’ve set up to float (I’ve owned five, altogether) has pulled the G up a 4th, give or take 20 cents.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market, 2020-2022: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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vjmanzo
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by vjmanzo »

Awesome info, @mmmguitar! Great to have this reference!
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by mmmguitar »

Though implied, I forgot to specify that I measured by pulling the bar/bridge until the end of the travel/rout was reached.

As VJ said, there are a number of factors that determine the range of the Fly trem. Unfortunately, the priorities of the design (step-stop functionality, smoothness and stability of pivoting on bearings, as well as the location of the pivot points) result in the pull-up range not being as simple to affect as one would with a strat-style trem.

The fact that the Fly trem design pivots from a point more or less under the saddles themselves, rather than from the front of the saddles/bridge plate (as in a typical trem in the Fender/Floyd Rose style), means that potential range of pitch is sacrificed for the sake of achieving a greater functioning potential for that range at a lower action (ie. A front-pivoting trem necessarily pulls the strings down into the fingerboard when pulled up - Meaning that, in the case of an Ibanez JEM's "lion claw" pull-up route, for example, you can only use the afforded, extended trem travel to its maximum range by setting the string action at zero-position to be far higher than the lowest action achievable on the guitar).

Point being: No matter the trem design, the mechanics are a matter of compromise. Even though my Floyd Rose guitars have a greater potential trem range, my low action-preference means that the Flys actually have a broader functional trem range than the point at which the Floyd Rose guitars' strings choke against the frets. As VJ can attest, Ned Steinberger's S/TransTrem design (with the pivot point behind the saddles) is the only design I've found that affords greater pull-up range (with lower achievable action) than Ken Parker's center-pivoting one; with all front-pivoting trems necessarily requiring a higher action at zero-position to utilize maximum pull-up range than either the Parker or Steinberger designs.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market, 2020-2022: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
Presence76
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by Presence76 »

Thank you for all the wisdom!
I'm going to try going through the setup guide and see if it gets any better.
I appreciate it!
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by mmmguitar »

Presence76 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:11 am Thank you for all the wisdom!
I'm going to try going through the setup guide and see if it gets any better.
I appreciate it!

Would you mind sharing the tuning and gauge of strings and spring you’re using? The Fly trem is “calibrated” to float once the step-stop no longer affects tuning when engaged or disengaged. Please let us know how many semitones/frets the G pulls up once that’s achieved.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market, 2020-2022: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
Presence76
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by Presence76 »

I’m in standard tuning, with a 9 gauge spring and Elixir 9 strings.
I just went through the guide about setting up the bridge and I get a half step (1 fret) on the 3rd and 2nd strings and less than a half step on the 1st.
I can’t quite tell where it’s getting blocked when I pull up
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vjmanzo
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Re: How Much Pull Up in Full Floating?

Post by vjmanzo »

If you unscrew the back plate (careful that the battery doesn’t rip out if this is a refined fly), can you see how the bridge moves when you pull the whammy bar up? The point of contact on one side will be on the step stop side, so make sure that it screwed in properly and close to the wall where it’s anchored.

Is the whammy bar in tight? Maybe you could even post a video of what it looks like on the inside and top of the guitar as you move the whammy bar up and down?
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