Please help with advice about playability of a new Fly Deluxe

[Kriss]

Hi everyone. I hope I bought some help about the playability of a Fly Deluxe that I just purchased. According to the serial 054179 BP it’s a ‘99 ( or could it be 2009) Fly Deluxe. It’s in almost a mint condition and was previously with 0’09 strings with a very, very low action, that me and the seller brought up already while testing. Later on I put a 10-46 Elixir Optiweb set and brought up action a bit more.Didn’t touch the truss rod so far, because the neck loocked straight and didn’t seem to need adjustment. I have the bridge blocked and the wheel turned so that it presses the bridge so that the tremolo doesn’t go up-just downward. I use Eb tuning ( all strings ½ step down from standard. The first problem started with the 3th(G) string going up in pitch while even touch the tremolo. It seemed like the nut slot was to tight or to deep and narrow and it gets stuck there-not 100% sure though. Somehow I got this fixed( almost) but the biggest problem I need help about is that it is very hard to play and bend strings. It almost feels like I’m playing an acoustic guitar. The strings feel very tight and tensed ( somehow). My other Fly Deluxe has the same setup, same strings, same action and almost straight neck and it’s sooo easy to play. The strings feel just like …butter:). What would you advice? Should I relief truss rod ? I called a guitar tech-he has 4weeks cue. I’m also on a cruise ship working the next 30 days. Can’t take the guitar to any shop anymore. Thanks beforehand for reading this long explanation. Appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[vjmanzo]

Hi @Kriss—thats a beautiful ‘99 Fly Deluxe you have!

I have experienced the G string issue before—with most Ken-era Flys, the nut slots were cut simultaneously with a guillotine-like device that Ken made. The nut slots on the G string can be a little tight if you’re using 10s—I use 10s and this needed attention on my Flys.

The difficulty bending is an interesting problem. When you say you have the bridge “blocked”, do you mean that you have the spring tightened or did you use an actual block? If it’s a spring, is it a 9 spring?

[mmmguitar]

@Kriss, on a Fly, you typically only need a truss adjustment to correct one of two symptoms: if you're getting buzz in the first four frets or so (insufficient relief compensated for by loosening the truss), or if the string height feels especially high between the seventh and twelfth frets (excess relief compensated for by tightening the truss until you start to get a little buzz in the first few frets, then backing off until you find you're preferred sweet spot). Any other symptoms likely speak to other causes. To reiterate some of VJ's points: The factory nut was slotted for a 9-42 set; and using 10s without enlarging the nut slots can produce some of the symptoms you're describing.

[Kriss]

Thanks guys, to both of you!!!
The G string is ( kind of) fixed-a little pencil graphite in the whole and slightly applying traction with a 4th(0,26) string helped. That turned out to be the least problem. The “hard to play” part still persists, now even the sound is so different than other Fly , the white ‘95 I was asking questions about the tone knob some time ago. I know there’s not two of them alike , but… biiig differences. If I knew of those differences/problems I’d never purchase this guitar. I paid big money for it and even added a wonderful USA standard Telecaster to the deal. If I could, I’d reverse the deal right away.
By having the bridge blocked I mean I have turned the wheel as far as the spring plate holder to touch the stop “buffer “ that prevents the bridge to go up. On my ‘95 Parker is that way and it’s a dream to play.
I wonder: could it be that 1995 fly deluxe and 1999 deluxe have different necks ? It seems to me the ‘99 is thicker.
Also on my ‘95 I see the carbon “ cells” on the fret board, while on this one - ‘99 from the pics-it is fully black, no so-called carbon typical pattern. There’s also a different tremolo slot-I can’t use the screw on the back of the bridge, because there’s some kind of a ring inside that’s blocking it-I wonder if it’s been modified ? Seller says:” no” - it’s original.

[Patzag]

Thanks guys, to both of you!!!
The G string is ( kind of) fixed-a little pencil graphite in the whole and slightly applying traction with a 4th(0,26) string helped. That turned out to be the least problem. The “hard to play” part still persists, now even the sound is so different than other Fly , the white ‘95 I was asking questions about the tone knob some time ago. I know there’s not two of them alike , but… biiig differences. If I knew of those differences/problems I’d never purchase this guitar. I paid big money for it and even added a wonderful USA standard Telecaster to the deal. If I could, I’d reverse the deal right away.
By having the bridge blocked I mean I have turned the wheel as far as the spring plate holder to touch the stop “buffer “ that prevents the bridge to go up. On my ‘95 Parker is that way and it’s a dream to play.
I wonder: could it be that 1995 fly deluxe and 1999 deluxe have different necks ? It seems to me the ‘99 is thicker.
Also on my ‘95 I see the carbon “ cells” on the fret board, while on this one - ‘99 from the pics-it is fully black, no so-called carbon typical pattern. There’s also a different tremolo slot-I can’t use the screw on the back of the bridge, because there’s some kind of a ring inside that’s blocking it-I wonder if it’s been modified ? Seller says:” no” - it’s original.

Can you post some pictures that illustrate what you mention here?

[Kriss]

Ok. Missed to answer before: spring plate inside is 10.

[KenanJ]

Hey guys,

I can relate to @Kriss issue, on my 94' deluxe the high e feels a bit stiff compared to other strings, I check the string height it seems to be the factory recommended setting, from what I recall I have 1.75mm-ish on the 12th fret low E and 1.25mm-ish on the high e side.
All others strings feels great, it used to have 9s on it with 9 spring, I used to play it full floating but to me it moved too much, I guess my setup wasnt good enough at the time, now I play it with the trem set to down only mode with 8s and a 9 spring, it plays gteat except this little high e stiffness so If anyone has a clue, I take it!

I didn't touch the truss rod either it has a light loght curve which seems good and no buzz.

[mmmguitar]

@Kriss, apologies for the delay in responding to your question about the visible pattern in the carbon fiber. I had a vague memory of someone from the factory explaining in a post here or in the FB groups why there were different patterns (something to do with wax paper laid on the epoxy for the sake of flattening the surface imparting a pattern in addition to the visible weave), but have been unable to find it. The short of it is that Flys from different eras of production have either a twill, hexagonal, or pseudo-bead-blasted pattern visible under the fiberglass layer. I've never seen it stated if this was due to different suppliers being used.

VJ previously made a helpful post addressing a similar question:

The top layer of the fretboard [...] is fiberglass .010” thick, and the next layer is carbon fiber that, at least during Ken’s time, had the hexagonal pattern.

It seems that on some Flys, that top fiberglass layer is perhaps (becoming?) more transparent than others and allowing the carbon fiber to show through more than others—I doubt the fiberglass is “wearing out” with age, but it may be losing its pigment. My ‘93 redwood-neck Fly fretboard really shows a prominent hex pattern, for example, even though there’s a layer of fiberglass on top of it.

[Kriss]

@Kriss, apologies for the delay in responding to your question about the visible pattern in the carbon fiber. I had a vague memory of someone from the factory explaining in a post here or in the FB groups why there were different patterns (something to do with wax paper laid on the epoxy for the sake of flattening the surface imparting a pattern in addition to the visible weave), but have been unable to find it. The short of it is that Flys from different eras of production have either a twill, hexagonal, or bead-blasted pattern visible under the fiberglass layer. I've never seen it stated if this was due to different suppliers being used.


VJ previously made a helpful post addressing a similar question:

The top layer of the fretboard [...] is fiberglass .010” thick, and the next layer is carbon fiber that, at least during Ken’s time, had the hexagonal pattern.

It seems that on some Flys, that top fiberglass layer is perhaps (becoming?) more transparent than others and allowing the carbon fiber to show through more than others—I doubt the fiberglass is “wearing out” with age, but it may be losing its pigment. My ‘93 redwood-neck Fly fretboard really shows a prominent hex pattern, for example, even though there’s a layer of fiberglass on top of it.

Thanks @mmmguitar , what worries me is that there’s no pattern at all. Even under a strong light. I’m starting to suspect that the fretboard is replaced, for some reason. Though seller states that all is original.

[mmmguitar]

I’m starting to suspect that the fretboard is replaced

Replaced with what? Replacing a Fly fingerboard is no trivial task: They're paper-thin, epoxied on, have their edges painted over, and the frets have no tangs. If you suspect it's been replaced, it likely would have been done by the factory. Seeing a pattern under light isn't going to determine if your Fly has a carbon fingerboard or not - The frets make it obvious.

Edit: I saw your post in the FB group hypothesizing that the fingerboard could have been replaced due to a truss issue. Your '99 Fly's truss rod is a piano wire installed in a channel on the back of the neck prior to the CF exoskeleton baked onto the rear of the guitar covering it - Removing the paper thin CF on the front isn't going to provide access to the truss; and the truss can't be repaired, anyway (the entire neck would have to be rebuilt) - So there would be no reason to remove the fingerboard in the first place.

Concerning your stuck trem arm collar tension screw: It looks as though the screw is just stuck in its threading - Put some penetrating oil (such as Kroil) on it and see if it loosens it up.

Ken posted about dealing with a stuck trem set screw here.

[Kriss]

I’m starting to suspect that the fretboard is replaced

Replaced with what? Replacing a Fly fingerboard is no trivial task: They're paper-thin, epoxied on, have their edges painted over, and the frets have no tangs. If you suspect it's been replaced, it likely would have been done by the factory. Seeing a pattern under light isn't going to determine if your Fly has a carbon fingerboard or not - The frets make it obvious.

Edit: I saw your post in the FB group hypothesizing that the fingerboard could have been replaced due to a truss issue. Your '99 Fly's truss rod is a piano wire installed in a channel on the back of the neck prior to the CF exoskeleton baked onto the rear of the guitar covering it - Removing the paper thin CF on the front isn't going to provide access to the truss; and the truss can't be repaired, anyway (the entire neck would have to be rebuilt) - So there would be no reason to remove the fingerboard in the first place.

Thanks again.
I understand, about the rod, it was only suggestion.I wonder what could go wrong for to give a reason for replacement? It just puzzles me why there’s no hexa or any pattern visible at all. With the tremolo nest problem and also the feeling that this neck is thicker than my ‘95 …I’m starting to have thoughts
And one other thing: last night when I played with the acoustic sound, the piezo mode, every time I hit the tremolo bar, there’s a strong low thump, boom sound, almost like a very low bass drum kick. That’s very weird and has never occurred with my other Fly in the same mixer channel and same eq. Could it be the way the tremolo bar is attached?

[mmmguitar]

The black material on your Fly headstock is the same material as the fingerboard. If you don't see a pattern on either, it could be as simple as the epoxy layer over the CF being opaque. I think I've owned seven Flys; and not all of them had visible patterns in the CF - Sometimes the material is just flat black.

last night when I played with the acoustic sound, the piezo mode, every time I hit the tremolo bar, there’s a strong low thump, boom sound, almost like a very low bass drum kick. That’s very weird and has never occurred with my other Fly in the same mixer channel and same eq. Could it be the way the tremolo bar is attached?

Hard to say over text. The piezo saddles are microphonic (i.e., they'll pick up extraneous vibrations from the bridge and body); so it could be anything from contact between the bridge and the rout, the bar shifting in its socket, etc. If there's any way you could post an example of this sound, we might get a better idea of what's causing it.

[Kriss]

The black material on your Fly headstock is the same material as the fingerboard. If you don't see a pattern on either, it could be as simple as the epoxy layer over the CF being opaque. I think I've owned seven Flys; and not all of them had visible patterns in the CF - Sometimes the material is just flat black.

last night when I played with the acoustic sound, the piezo mode, every time I hit the tremolo bar, there’s a strong low thump, boom sound, almost like a very low bass drum kick. That’s very weird and has never occurred with my other Fly in the same mixer channel and same eq. Could it be the way the tremolo bar is attached?

Hard to say over text. The piezo saddles are microphonic (i.e., they'll pick up extraneous vibrations from the bridge and body); so it could be anything from contact between the bridge and the rout, the bar shifting in its socket, etc. If there's any way you could post an example of this sound, we might get a better idea of what's causing it.

I might record a short video of it later today. I’m still battling the action and pickups height. I’d like to make this one sound like my ‘95 but it “refuses” so far ))

[billy]

I think the nut slots might be contributing to the stiff feel.

I love elixirs but not on my flys. They tend to stick in the nut. I have it on good source that some graphite powder in the slots will fix this. Have not confirmed yet but no reason to doubt.

That said, if the slot is still a bit tight-or the break angle is a little different, it could cause your strings to feel a little stiff. This is the same idea as les Paul players wrapping the strings over the tail piece to get a slinkier feel.

Your string might be pinched at the nut so you won’t get the extra string stretch beyond the nut. Or maybe even how many wraps you have around the peg on the g are changing the break angle relative to the other strings and your other fly. To be sure this is a pretty subtle influence but still. Fwiw I’m one of those people who hear the influence of the wood type too.

The other thing is that even if your bridge is blocked, the spring tension might be a bit different too. Again subtle but something you can try to dial in.

As for the piezo thump, if your bar is set very tight, you have a better acoustic path to the piezo element. Hopefully that set screw you circled is not stripped. You’ll need a hex key to loosen it up. One of the technicians on the ship should have a loaner for you. Ps the link to Ken’s post on the set screw is perfect.

[billy]

And a little more info.

That set screw only controls how easily the bar spins, not how tight it is to install and remove. That is controlled with a very gentle bend at the end of the bar where it fits into the bushing. I think there more info on that via search.

[Kriss]

Thanks to everyone helping.
Here’s a little update:
I’ve changed the string set to the gauge that I usually use 10,13,17,26,32,42 Tried different positions of the wheel and spring tension. Playability is now fine, almost as easy as I want it. Action is very good. My clean sounds are very, very good ( the way I’d prefer) only the lead drive sound is a little muddy on the low strings. The pickups are not as easy to move up/down as on my other Fly, because of the fact that I have to unscrew both screws in order to move them. It’s not easy ( at least for me at the moment) but with a little help it works. Neck pickup should be a bit lower, on the low strings side, but I’ll take out both pickups as soon as I get home and see what I can do( maybe add some ball pen spring under, so I can move them up and down easily. Well, that’s all for now. Thanks again to everyone who took part of this thread. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year 2025

[vjmanzo]

Great to hear this is working out now, @Kriss!

Don’t attribute the change in playability to switching back to your usual strings as opposed to the Elixir Optiweb strings you had on there? Or the tweaks to the spring angle?

[Kriss]

Great to hear this is working out now, @Kriss!

Don’t attribute the change in playability to switching back to your usual strings as opposed to the Elixir Optiweb strings you had on there? Or the tweaks to the spring angle?

Hi @vjmanzo, I think it’s a result of both. When I changed to 26,32,42 the playability was already better, meaning softer. But when I started to adjust the spring then it really got what I want. I tried btw the #9 spring. Had to stretch it sooo much, that it started to touch the bottom of the chamber. The interesting thing is that my other Delixe still has the Elixir Optiweb and playability is easy , maybe slightly ( only because I pay so much attention to it now ) harder.
The other thing interesting is how different both guitars sound. Especially audible on lead drive sound. Clean sounds are similar- the ‘99 though has more bottom, the middle position of the magnetic pickups( single coil Strat type of sound) is not as sparkling ( if I may say) as the other. Even though the pickups are almost at the same distance from the strings.Seems like two poplar woods could sound different:)