Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

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nuovonormale
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Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

Hi again,
I'm sorry to pollute the forum with all these help requests :(
Further playing my new '97 Fly deluxe has highlighted something I didn't notice in the first days of excitement.
Playing the high E string at third fret I realized there was a "zzing" sound which I initially attributed to the new strings and/or the change in action due to re-centering the bridge (see other post :)
After further checks though I realized it's due to the fret being (not-visibly) slightly detached from the fretboard in its last cm or less, on the high side. If I press the fret on its end (on the high side) with may nail (or a hard object) I hear a slight "click" as if the fret is not perfectly adhering to the surface. The rest of the fret (I'd say 5/6 of it) seems perfectly adherent and firmly attached.

I then proceeded to do the "press" test on all of the frets and found 6, 7 frets are having the same issue, all only on the high E side. The 3rd fret is probably the worst case, even if pressing the string harder while playing, the "zzing" issue is hardly noticeable.

I confess I'm a bit let down by this discovery.
Did any of you ever experience this "partial detach" issue (as opposed to a "full" fret falling out issue)?
If so, do you think the only way is to completely remove those frets and re-glue them? Or there might be some other, lighter way to fix it?
Or should I live with it for the time being?
Thank you all for the patience and always prompt help!
Andrea
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Patzag
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Patzag »

nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

@Patzag
thank you so much! I had already read through that thread, watched the video, etc.. but upon re-checking after your suggestion I noticed I had missed the one key question which was exactly matching my "scenario".

It seems consensus is on removing it and re-glueing.. but no way I feel up to the task, especially for 7-8 frets!
I'll have to ship it to a luthier in Italy who I know has a long experience with Parker guitars...
but I was a bit reluctant to ship back and forth the guitar for fear it might get damaged..
thanks again,
Andrea
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Patzag
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Patzag »

Ciao Andrea,
To be totally honest I had a similar situation on one of my guitars and I re-glued the offending fret, without removing it entirely. It has not given me a problem since.
If pressing on the fret resolves the problem, then adding a little bit of glue and pressing down with a clamp should be able to handle the problem.
Good luck.
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mmmguitar
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by mmmguitar »

I sometimes suspect that the only reason I haven't noticed any frets lifting in my Flys is because I want the firsthand experience of repairing it: I've had some thin CA glue and accelerator spray set aside for years; because I'd like to see whether clamping a lifting fret end back into place will require releveling the fret tops. Please let us know what ends up working for you, @nuovonormale.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Jupiter
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Jupiter »

nuovonormale wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 6:52 am Did any of you ever experience this "partial detach" issue (as opposed to a "full" fret falling out issue)?
If so, do you think the only way is to completely remove those frets and re-glue them? Or there might be some other, lighter way to fix it?
Happened to me a week after I bought my '95 Fly Deluxe (recently), 2nd hand (or probably 34th hand).

Initially, I thought it was just the first fret but it turned out there where a few more but not as bad as the first fret.
343322554_615881487129812_1117798430094588788_n.jpg
343281921_597405152334208_1275985915978714185_n.jpg
343540672_636490491826991_2923924837687161731_n.jpg
I left it to my luthier, he just reglued the problematic frets without completelly removing them.

Knock on wood, I've spent a couple of hours playing with it, everything seems fine.

PS: I love that guitar, it became my #1 but honestly, I'll try to buy another one (preferably a refined Fly) for backup...
nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

thank you all for your help and insights: this is really a great community! :)
I'm really torn here, between @vjmanzo stating that "it didn't work at all" for him and @Patzag who's happy with the results.

to try myself I would:
1) buy this glue suggested by VJ in the main fret thread: Pacer Technology (Zap) Zap CA Adhesives, 2 oz
2) (no idea how to) let a tiny drop of glue penetrate the basically invisible gap between the frets and the fingerboard..
maybe I should try to lift it a bit more ?
(@Patzag how did you manage to let the glue in?)
3) press the fret.. again, i've no tools for this purpose.
I've seen this dedicated chinese tool from aliexpress.. with "bars" for pressing frets of different radius (they have 10, 12, 14)
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005005002346134.html
It has some nice reviews..
I know the fly has a variable radius 10-13..

If this.. in future might be also useful to repair myself a (fully) fallen fret.. it might be seen as a kind of investment.
I'm just very worried that I do a mess.. and need to ship to the luthier anyway :D

thanks again for your precious help
Andrea
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vjmanzo
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by vjmanzo »

nuovonormale wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 7:40 am I'm really torn here, between @vjmanzo stating that "it didn't work at all" for him…
I’d like to qualify my statement by adding that I didn’t/don’t have a lot of experience with it, so I was about as handy as a foot 🙂 If you’re up for this then go for it!! 🏆
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Patzag
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Patzag »

nuovonormale wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 7:40 am thank you all for your help and insights: this is really a great community! :)
I'm really torn here, between @vjmanzo stating that "it didn't work at all" for him and @Patzag who's happy with the results.

to try myself I would:
1) buy this glue suggested by VJ in the main fret thread: Pacer Technology (Zap) Zap CA Adhesives, 2 oz
2) (no idea how to) let a tiny drop of glue penetrate the basically invisible gap between the frets and the fingerboard..
maybe I should try to lift it a bit more ?
(@Patzag how did you manage to let the glue in?)
3) press the fret.. again, i've no tools for this purpose.
I've seen this dedicated chinese tool from aliexpress.. with "bars" for pressing frets of different radius (they have 10, 12, 14)
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005005002346134.html
It has some nice reviews..
I know the fly has a variable radius 10-13..

If this.. in future might be also useful to repair myself a (fully) fallen fret.. it might be seen as a kind of investment.
I'm just very worried that I do a mess.. and need to ship to the luthier anyway :D

thanks again for your precious help
Andrea
Hey Andrea,
The glue wicked really easily between the neck and the fret. I then had to remove the excess with a bit of acetone on a q-tip. Maybe I was lucky?
Because simply pushing the fret down re-aligned it, I did not have to use a specialized tool. I used a wood clamp. Like this one: (Cheap).
Clamp.jpg
Clamp.jpg (9.64 KiB) Viewed 3693 times
nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

@vjmanzo ... while I have no experience AT ALL :D
nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

@Patzag: well.. you know what.. I'll go for it :)
I wanna test my luck as well ahah
I'll try on that one fret where the issue is really audible.

I'll grab vj's suggested glue in my upcoming US trip and try the repair when I'm back in italy mid june.
and report the results with some photos then!

thank you all for helping out! best community ever this Parker's forum :)
nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

One last comment. I just checked with previous owner (we are kinda friends after all the interactions ahah).
Years ago the first fret fell out completely and he had it reattached with "attak" glue (cyanoacrylate). Apparently it's working fine after few years.
At the time, his luthier had suggested... removing all frets, cutting out slices of the composite fingerboard for each one and install normal frets in-stead - of course he stayed away from it.. but it's apparent that most "traditional" luthiers should stay well away from Parker guitars!!
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Jupiter
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Jupiter »

nuovonormale wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:32 pm At the time, his luthier had suggested... removing all frets, cutting out slices of the composite fingerboard for each one and install normal frets in-stead - of course he stayed away from it..
Good God! That should be a felony...
nuovonormale wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:32 pm but it's apparent that most "traditional" luthiers should stay well away from Parker guitars!!
Amen brother!
nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

hi all,
i promised to report how the partially lifted fret repair job would end up ... and now I will, since couple of hourse ago I decided I had the (few) tools I thought I'd need and ... the courage to attempt ...
my tools were mainly the zap glue suggested by vj, a cutter, a clamp, a 10 radius fret press (on aliexpress).. which I though would be able to press the two extrems of the fret at least (regardless of the specific radius.. since the parker neck is variable radius 10-13) and little else.
I lifted slightly more the treble side of the fret.. let' say it was unglued for .. less than 1cm (more like 0.5 cm)
with the cutter I tried to remove a bit of dried glue while keeping the fret lifted with a tiny flat scredriver.
Then i took the leap and put some glue on a side of the fret, as shown by a you tube video (you'll find it, it's one of the few - the one with the white deluxe :))... the guy just put the glue and with a q-tip immediately removed all the exceeding amount.
Instead in my case.. the glue stuck immediately on the fretboard around..!
a bit is still there even if I tried to remove it with acetone later :(
then I tried to clamp everything with my clamp and the 10 bronze press thing..
I think the result is.. the fret is now somehow glued but seems slightly "tall"
so, the G note on E string (this fret was #3) is not "zwingging" any more (as of now) as the fret is firmly attached.. but on the other hand the f# note (only f#, f is fine).. is "zwinginng" a bit..
don't know exactly what the problem was.. maybe the 10 bronze press was not pushing on the extremes as I hoped, it was basically perfect radius for that fret (so evenly distributed) or I didn't clean well enough the old glue (hard to do without removing the fret completely).
so, assuming the fret will remain firm, I've moved the issue from g to f# :D but at least the fret would not fall
@mmmguitar ... so, to get back to your point.. in this situation I'd need a bit of sanding.. but I'll refrain from doing that.
the day the guitar has some major issue I'll ship it to this parker-expert italian luthier
thanks all for your help and suggestions
Andrea
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mmmguitar
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Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by mmmguitar »

Thanks for sharing your experience. Given how many Flys and NiteFlys were produced from 1993 to 2015, It's inevitable that other owners will continue to find themselves having to brave this specific repair; and will find every firsthand detail helpful. Knock on wood, I still haven't had the opportunity to test this myself.

#FretIssues
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Patzag
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Patzag »

nuovonormale wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:09 am hi all,
i promised to report how the partially lifted fret repair job would end up ... and now I will, since couple of hourse ago I decided I had the (few) tools I thought I'd need and ... the courage to attempt ...
my tools were mainly the zap glue suggested by vj, a cutter, a clamp, a 10 radius fret press (on aliexpress).. which I though would be able to press the two extrems of the fret at least (regardless of the specific radius.. since the parker neck is variable radius 10-13) and little else.
I lifted slightly more the treble side of the fret.. let' say it was unglued for .. less than 1cm (more like 0.5 cm)
with the cutter I tried to remove a bit of dried glue while keeping the fret lifted with a tiny flat scredriver.
Then i took the leap and put some glue on a side of the fret, as shown by a you tube video (you'll find it, it's one of the few - the one with the white deluxe :))... the guy just put the glue and with a q-tip immediately removed all the exceeding amount.
Instead in my case.. the glue stuck immediately on the fretboard around..!
a bit is still there even if I tried to remove it with acetone later :(
then I tried to clamp everything with my clamp and the 10 bronze press thing..
I think the result is.. the fret is now somehow glued but seems slightly "tall"
so, the G note on E string (this fret was #3) is not "zwingging" any more (as of now) as the fret is firmly attached.. but on the other hand the f# note (only f#, f is fine).. is "zwinginng" a bit..
don't know exactly what the problem was.. maybe the 10 bronze press was not pushing on the extremes as I hoped, it was basically perfect radius for that fret (so evenly distributed) or I didn't clean well enough the old glue (hard to do without removing the fret completely).
so, assuming the fret will remain firm, I've moved the issue from g to f# :D but at least the fret would not fall
@mmmguitar ... so, to get back to your point.. in this situation I'd need a bit of sanding.. but I'll refrain from doing that.
the day the guitar has some major issue I'll ship it to this parker-expert italian luthier
thanks all for your help and suggestions
Andrea
Hi Andrea.

Here is my suggestion:

Knock the whole fret off. Clean it all up and re-install. It's not hard to do and will prevent the issue you are having. Most likely, some hard glue residue is under the fret.
The board is lightly slotted and the fret is slightly grooved so you will see they fit precisely where they should.

A do over is better than sanding a perfectly good fret.

Cheers,
Patrick
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billy
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by billy »

Agree with Patrick- remove and reinstall. But want to add you may have bent the fret when you lifted it.

You can remove the excess glue with acetone but just use a little at a time. Don’t flood it, and be sure to keep it away from the paint.
Billy

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nuovonormale
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by nuovonormale »

@Patzag, @billy : thank you both!
I think after this "half failure" I've gained a bit of confidence. I'll let it rest for a while and (when I gather the courage :D) eventually do as you suggest.
cheers
Andrea
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Patzag
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Patzag »

nuovonormale wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:53 am @Patzag, @billy : thank you both!
I think after this "half failure" I've gained a bit of confidence. I'll let it rest for a while and (when I gather the courage :D) eventually do as you suggest.
cheers
Andrea
Good for you! It's not half as hard as it's made to look. Let us know how you made out!
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Jupiter
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Re: Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

Post by Jupiter »

Patzag wrote: Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:33 pm The board is lightly slotted and the fret is slightly grooved so you will see they fit precisely where they should.
Pat, my man!

Wait, I thought the fretboard was totally flat!

In fact that's the reason my tech refused to remove them completely and install them again, because he wasn't sure if he would be able to place them exactly where they should be.

If the fretboard is even lightly slotted then even if someone wants to go the refret route, it should be way easier than I thought.

Nick
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