The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

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vjmanzo
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The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Reposting a helpful guide articulated wonderfully by @billy for an uncommon but troublesome issue:


As with any instrument, there are issues an owner may experience. Some issues that Parker Fly owners may experience are unique to the fly. This means most traditional resources available for repair will not be able to help. Almost all fly issues have a fix, but the leaning post issue, its resolutions, and the relevant physical parts are poorly described and documented.

The situation has led to much confusion and frustration on the Parker Forums. This information is an attempt to help resolve that confusion and get you back to enjoying your parker fly. Much of the instructional text is based on a post made by a forum member known as Shepherd. Thanks Shep!

#VibratoBridge
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billy
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by billy »

Thanks for the kind words VJ!

Hope it helps and if anyone has questions, ask away.
Billy

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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Xrocker »

I just repaired my DF824 with the aluminum can method.

Had a very strange issue. I had one post that was smaller in diameter than the other one. Definite quality control problem after Ken Parker sold his company.

One post fit tightly in either post hole. The other one wobbled around in both post holes.

Luckily I just happened to have an empty Coors can laying around. (What are the odds?)

Wrapped the small post almost all the way around with aluminum and even did about a half inch piece around the tight one since I already had it disassembled.

Wow what a difference. I could never truly bond with this guitar. Besides it going out of tune, it just never felt as alive as my 95 Fly.

It does now. No more tuning problems and the tone is just spectacular now. It’s alive and resonant like it has never been before.

Just dropped some Lawler pickups in it and the tones I’m getting are giving me goosebumps.

Thank you for the tip. It’s like I have a brand new guitar.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Very strange that you had two posts that were different, but I think standards did slip for certain things like that as you mentioned. Sounds like an excellent fix! Would love to see a pic if you happened to have taken one while it was in surgery at the Coors Institute for Guitar Repair :P

Would also love to hear those Lawler pickups too if you have the time; maybe post a demo in the video/audio section?
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Xrocker »

I’ve got a Halloween show this weekend and I’ll post some videos using said fixes guitar.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by igor »

Hello all -

I recently purchased a used mojo midi. I suspect that it *may* have this issue. It appears the bridge is extremely close to the edge towards the neck.

I have taken a pict
LeaningPost.JPG
ure.

Is there another way to identify if this is a problem with this guitar?

Igor
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vjmanzo
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Hi @Igor,

The "bridge post leaning issue" seems to be a very rare thing that only impacted a few guitars. I think it's more likely that the string tension against the spring is not compensated properly. I'd carefully unscrew the backplate, and chekc the spring number and make sure it matches the gauge of strings you're using (9 spring with .009', etc.). Then, follow this guide to balance the tension against the spring.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by igor »

Yes, thank you. I did do that, there is now more of a "gap", you are correct. The intonation is good, and I don't see anything rubbing or hitting anything: I *think* I am ok.

As always appreciate your responses.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Okay good to hear!

The string tension placed on the strings can sometimes cause a gap even when the step stop is down. If tightening the wheel to bring out the threaded rod doesn’t force the three-ridge plate against the step stop, then the spring could be mis-rated or just not “springy”.

This is my least favorite aspect of troubleshooting things related to the springs/the bridge because, eventually, they will all fail, and, even when a box of springs came brand new from the spring manufacturers, the springs needed to be tested in order for the technicians to know exactly what tension each was capable of resisting.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Noodler »

@billy- that PDF doc of the issue is fantastic. I was really hoping that someone had accurately captured this issue and the fix since my original thread on this problem on the old forum is long gone. Some may recall that I was the "patient 0" for this problem. I discovered the bridge post leaning issue while troubleshooting the tuning stability issues for my Fly Mojo (2008). My first fix for this was long before I worked with Terry on developing the delrin rings fix. My original fixes were never as good as the final use of the delrin rings. When I was on the Parker Factory Tour that a bunch of us from the forum attended, Terry handed me a bunch of the delrin rings. I've got them stashed somewhere...
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Noodler wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:28 pm Some may recall that I was the "patient 0" for this problem. I discovered the bridge post leaning issue while troubleshooting the tuning stability issues for my Fly Mojo (2008).
What a great piece of Parker Guitars history!
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Noodler »

vjmanzo wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:01 pm
Noodler wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:28 pm Some may recall that I was the "patient 0" for this problem. I discovered the bridge post leaning issue while troubleshooting the tuning stability issues for my Fly Mojo (2008).
What a great piece of Parker Guitars history!
Terry Atkins may not have been the original innovator and design genius that is Ken Parker, but that man had a level of passion and dedication to trying to make Parker guitars remain viable as a company and keep it alive. He worked tirelessly (and ridiculous hours) week after week, month after month, trying to solve so many of the challenges to make that "$10,000" guitar profitable. Some may not agree with all of those changes, but Terry's heart was always in it. Much respect to that man for what he did to try to save the brand...
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

I agree with you: @Terry Atkins helped keep the company going for a decade building thousands of really complicated instruments! Whew! Totally impressive!
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Fly Rod »

I'd love to know the three measurements of these Delrin bushings
Inside diameter, outside diameter & thickness overall
While I have my Fly apart I would love to install some of these bushings
Could more than likely make some from Nylon but they would be white
Or research the three measurements & find something out there suitable
I could just knock one of the bushings out & measure the OD
OR just measure the bushings OD from the top & it's depth while I have the tremolo removed
The ID would be just measuring the two adjustment shafts

You would want the spacer bushings tight as not to rattle
If they weren't I was thinking Teflon Tape which is 3.5mils

The shaft to the ID of the bushings is where the tin can could come into play
Would also think that after the fix I would then ad a couple drops of thin CA to wick into the bushings ridges

I will go down to the dungeon of guitar repair in a while & see about getting the measurements
FLY ROD Formerly FLY Wheel
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Fly Rod »

I was looking the "Trashed" Fly Deluxe over really hard & know the tremolo spring had broken on it & that caused the trem to go FLYing forward & smack the body with the tension the strings have breaking the hole in the face of the guitar..
Have been looking this thread about "Stabilization Rings" which are sleeves put above the tremolo mounting posts to keep the assemblies from leaning forward.
After looking my Fly over I discover the frame is cracked on the Treble side all the way threw the post bushing area, So I removed that post to examine the fit & to get measurements on the stabilization rings which where delrin & used in the later FlY's from the factory, JFYI Ours is June 5th 2007 by the Serial # P0706055 BP USA & didn't have any.
Far as I can tell the bushings are 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD, & 1/4"
Need to go to Home Depot, Lowes, Menard's & Ace Hardware & Look threw their nylon/delrin spacers/bushings..
Not 3/4" as the actual measurement is .7195" not .7500 which is 3/4"
The ID is .5000 which is 1/2" The height will vary on how far they where drilled from the factory. Close to 1/4" or .2500"
I can make these spacers from Iron, Aluminum, Brass or Nylon but that takes time without a lathe..
Was planning on trying to clamp that wood break together tightly & fill the break with CA Glue on the inside & out..
I need some thin CA as I have one fret loose & the NUT has fallen off.. I have always used wood glue to attach string nuts but maybe the Parker requires something more..
Need to unsolder the wire from the board as not to get glue on it or it'll get stuck the wrong place in the hole.
Have the bridge in a Black Crown Royal bag to protect the top currently..
After the CA Glue I will have to take a v shaped needle file to the grooves inside the post hole to make sure the bushings will fit without splitting the frame even worse.
BTW my shaft to bushing fit together so well no way a tin can shim could be used, .007" variant divided by two because of it being round would be .0035", Only thing I have that thin is a few feeler gauges or aluminum foil or teflon tape.. I keep thinking of things!!

Just thought of something else which is that self adhesive copper foil tape for shielding control cavities as it would stay in place & copper is a soft metal, Could be the perfect shim.. Hmmmm? Need to measure it's thickness next trip to the "Guitar Dungeon"
Once I get these bushings where I want them they will get some CA Glue to hold them tight..
I read somewhere that Ken Parker did this on some that had an issue with them moving up or down..

I have been posting on the facebook group as Tamara Summitt Sutter = My Wife BTW..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1767445786910340
Need to figure out how to reactivate my account I shut down about ten years ago..
Don't want to go threw the BS of starting another e-mail account etc. to make it happen..

I WILL GET THIS GUITAR FIXED EVENTUALLY
Fly Crack I.JPG
Fly Crack II.JPG
Stabilizer Ring ID.JPG
Stabilizer Ring OD.JPG
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Fly Rod »

OK 1st Off WiGuitar now has "Stabilization Rings" on eBay
G-Man.Music also tells me they have them as well JFYI
I was in the process of making one from a nylon spacer when I saw them available.
Very hard to drill without distorting the shape into an elliptical & turning the OD without a lathe is almost impossible.
I will have a couple sent to aid in the fix of the trashed Parker Fly..
Didn't mean to trash this website with all my posts but these are a must have..
Gary
Stabilizer Rings - Pair.jpg
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by vjmanzo »

Hi Fly Rod,

Thanks for sharing that; no worries—you’re not trashing anything 😉

Just a gentle FYI—G.Man Music and WiGuitar are the same Mike G. we mentioned on the Anatomy page.
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by Fly Rod »

I have had two email conversations with Mike G. on Reverb in the last few days BTW..
He has been instrumental in me acquiring the last few parts I need to get the Fly back together..
I'm going to get a couple of the stabilization rings + a Trem Arm, It's plastic bushing & a T-Bar from GMan.Music/WiGuitar
My last order of parts came from WiGuitar on eBay.. Good to Know they are one & the same..
He also told me He may have a factory Tension Wheel Too!!
My set screw for the trem arm doesn't have the polymer tip like the one Ken Parker showed in a post here..
I may have to create my own or go search Ace Hardware. My plastic bushing has a hole threw it were the set screw was over tightened..
10x32x.250 Trem Allen Screw.jpeg
Was also lucky enough to have talked to a Musician in Nashville who has a few Parkers & got myself a Brand NEW .009" Spring..
It has never been installed & is dated 06/06/03 & 9, I wiped it down & put rust preventative gun oil on it..
I assume He uses .010"s because He told me He also has .011"s & .012" springs too..
9 Spring.jpg
The reason I first came to the Fly Clone was looking for a trem spring & am still interested in the ones being produced as a replacement..
We are going to Keep This Guitar & Play it till the frets fall off & then glue them back on again..
Need some super glue which I will get tomorrow at either Michael's or Wood Craft.. Or Order from Stew-Mac.

When I get the crack glued & bushings & inserts installed I will get a few pics & share them here..
Should be some time next week.. IF?
I've been feeling a bit better & need to rout the top & install a patch of yellow poplar which came from a buddy @ Talk Bass
Have some Red Oak that were Church Pews that where thrown out about 2 years ago.. = Holy Wood..

Have to get the electronics working too, I think the output jack is faulty & will have to order a Fishman Jack from Stew-Mac & modify it to fit the Parker. --> https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/com ... ndpin-jack
NOTE: The gold one is $26.94 & the Chrome is $33.00, The Gold end will get replaced with the Parker's original nut end anyhow.. SO!!
Output Jack Fly.jpg
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billy
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by billy »

I want to clarify that the issue is that the od of the post and the id of the bushing has too much gap. This is likely due to tolerances applied for finishing. Fwiw Most factories today have little or no incoming inspection so it would not be sloppy workmanship- just an extremely easy thing to miss.

If your post and bushing are that closely matched, this is not your issue.

I’d use tightbond to glue your body wood, clamp well, and consider reinforcing the joint with thin dowels.
Billy

Spruce spruce and CF forever...
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Re: The Fly Leaning Bridge Posts Issue

Post by billy »

Noodler wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:28 pm @billy- that PDF doc of the issue is fantastic. I was really hoping that someone had accurately captured this issue and the fix since my original thread on this problem on the old forum is long gone. Some may recall that I was the "patient 0" for this problem. I discovered the bridge post leaning issue while troubleshooting the tuning stability issues for my Fly Mojo (2008). My first fix for this was long before I worked with Terry on developing the delrin rings fix. My original fixes were never as good as the final use of the delrin rings. When I was on the Parker Factory Tour that a bunch of us from the forum attended, Terry handed me a bunch of the delrin rings. I've got them stashed somewhere...
Thanks Noodler! Great to see you here! I mostly remember all the guessing about crushed wood, etc. the rings are a great idea.

The height required to fit the body will most likely vary based on how much finish sanding was done to the top after cnc.

And the refined guitars are a little thicker because some guys wanted a Floyd.
Billy

Spruce spruce and CF forever...
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