Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Parts, mods, projects, and requests/concepts based on adaptations of Fly parts
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rsdio
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Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by rsdio »

Thinking that my Parker Fly Supreme had some burned out silicon, I started down the path of recreating the printed circuit board.

It turns out that my problems were partly explained in future revisions of the owners manual (the LED is only supposed to light up for a moment - there's not really a problem when it goes dark), and a consequence of someone replacing the output jack with a non-Parker type.

Anyway, I hope to finish measuring the mounting holes and other dimensions of the PCB so I can make a replacement. From this template, it should be possible to make custom circuits for folks that want different variations.

Here are some of the parts from the Bill of Materials (work in progress):

LTC1044CN8 (Analog Devices)
MAX8211CPA+ (Maxim Integrated)
MC33179DR2G (ON Semiconductor)

transistors - these will require some prototyping and testing to make sure they match the originals:
MMBT3906-7-F (Diodes Incorporated)
PMBT2907A,235 (Nexperia)
MMBT5087LT1G (ON Semiconductor)
MMBT5089LT1G (ON Semiconductor)

diode:
MMBD914 (MCC - Micro Commercial Components)

other low-power, low-noise op-amp options:
LT1359CN (Analog Devices)
LT1491CN (Analog Devices)
MAX44242AUA+ (Maxim Integrated)
Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Supreme '98
rsdio
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by rsdio »

One interesting note:

R7, a 3.6 kΩ resistor, is missing on my Deluxe. I believe that this changes the originally-designed two-pole high-pass filter into a single-pole high-pass filter for the Piezo In first stage. The second stage remains a two-pole high-pass with different corner frequencies. In other words, the original was a complex four-pole high-pass, and it looks like Parker / Fishman decided to back off and make this a three-pole high-pass.

It would be an interesting exercise to calculate or model the frequency response for these two stages of the circuit, both as originally designed and with R7 missing. Perhaps Parker / Fishman decided that the piezo needed a little more low end, and found that removing this one resistor was a simple way to give back a little more of the natural piezo signal while still retaining the DC filter.

Brian
Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Supreme '98
rsdio
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by rsdio »

And, as part of this thread, a plea:

If anyone understands the strange transistor symbols in the Fly1 Rev1 Fishman schematics that are available here and elsewhere, please share that information here. Now that I think about it, I could ask Fishman. They were kind enough to send schematics when I asked (but they made it clear that they do not have any Parker Fly parts for sale, and don't even have any parts not for sale - whew!)

I managed to probe half of the transistor to determine whether they are PNP or NPN, and their pinouts. There are also a couple of diodes in transistor packages, which explains why only two of the three pins are connected. However, the remaining half of the transistors will have to be removed from the circuit to test them, because other components are interfering with in-circuit measurements. On that note, if anyone has a (partly) dead FLY1 REV1 FISHMAN pcb that they'd be willing to send me, then I would potentially be able to measure those transistors (and potentially be able to repair said board).

Brian
Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Supreme '98
rsdio
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by rsdio »

Another related topic:

People have talked about the challenges of maintaining access to the piezo pickup after rewiring their Fly to connect the magnetic pickup to the output jack passively. So, I'm wondering: what sort of arrangement would folks expect if a revised circuit board could be made to support such a hybrid? Would this require the stereo output jack to have the active piezo on one channel and the passive magnetic pickup on the other? I don't quite see how the master volume or the stereo/mono switch would work after removing the magnetic pickup from the pcb, but if anyone has ideas then I'm game to consider them.

Another question might be: If a replacement pcb is available, would you want the magnetic pickups back in the active signal path?

I suppose this is related to the motivations behind going passive. Are folks resorting to magnetic only after the flex circuit "tapes" have failed? ... or are folks really interesting in the sound of passive magnetics and willing to give up the piezo in order to get that?

If anyone has answers, it will give me ideas about what might be useful.
Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Supreme '98
mmmguitar
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by mmmguitar »

I don’t know if you’re acquainted with Dayn Warren, but he’s Washington-based and well-known for accumulating and reselling Gen 1 Fly components. Though not active here the way he was on the old board, I expect he’ll be quick to respond on whatever platform you message him on for it to be worth a shot.
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vjmanzo
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by vjmanzo »

@dayn
rsdio
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by rsdio »

mmmguitar wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:46 pm I don’t know if you’re acquainted with Dayn Warren, but he’s Washington-based and well-known for accumulating and reselling Gen 1 Fly components. Though not active here the way he was on the old board, I expect he’ll be quick to respond on whatever platform you message him on for it to be worth a shot.
Thank you for the information. I sent him a message, although VJ's call-out should achieve the same goal.
Fly Deluxe '97, Fly Supreme '98
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billy
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by billy »

Hey Brian-

Awesome project. The schematic available is very good, not sure about any missing resistor- might be an optional part to go along with an ic sub over time. Speculation only on my part.

I’ve had an idea to remake the ribbons to help others with otherwise working pcbs- usually the ribbons are the point of failure, the pcbs are fairly robust.

I think it would also be possible to do a hybrid that allows ptp from the pcb to the outboard components, possibly making it easier to do custom wiring configuration too, like out of phase, splits, etc. So zif socket with a short flex that includes thru holes for wires as a way to adapt to the old pcb.

There is a little demand for old parts but not much- most just go ptp, and I’ve been working on numerous other things instead. Tech has moved much farther since the fishman design, so I’d lean towards using something more like the newer fishman or ghost preamps but in a way that allows preserving the master volume and perhaps allowing for switching passive mags too.

Happy to help if I can.
Billy

Spruce spruce and CF forever...
dayn
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by dayn »

mmmguitar wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:46 pm I don’t know if you’re acquainted with Dayn Warren, but he’s Washington-based and well-known for accumulating and reselling Gen 1 Fly components. Though not active here the way he was on the old board, I expect he’ll be quick to respond on whatever platform you message him on for it to be worth a shot.
Been away from the forum for a long while, but logging in and catching up.

I don't have any Fishman boards left - most of my Fly parts are long gone at this point unfortunately.

I'm always happy to help anyone with what I know, or to work on their Fly's if they need help though.
mmmguitar
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by mmmguitar »

Glad to have you around in any capacity, @dayn - You remain a leading mind in the community.
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vjmanzo
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:22 pm Glad to have you around in any capacity, @dayn - You remain a leading mind in the community.
Agreed!
dayn
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by dayn »

mmmguitar wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:22 pm Glad to have you around in any capacity, @dayn - You remain a leading mind in the community.
Very nice of you to say. I do have lots of Fly info still rattling around in my head, happy to share anytime!
paulb3d
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by paulb3d »

HI,
I'm new to this forum so sorry for any redundancies. My 1998 Parker Fly's Flexible circuit tore. You wrote that you were considering creating replacement parts for it. Is that something you are doing or have done?
I've searched tirelessly and even reached out to custom FPC companies to see if they would make one for me but was unsuccessful. Here are pics of the torn flex and the diagram of the Flex circuit needed.


Thanks in advance for your time!!!
Paul
Parker-Fly-Spruce-Torn-Ribbon.jpg
Parker Fly Wiring Tape B.png
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vjmanzo
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by vjmanzo »

Hi @paulb3d, welcome! Sorry to hear of the torn PCB in your Fly.

Yes, we are alpha testing replacement parts now, and hope to make two versions available in the coming months: 1) a flex PCB replacement for use with all existing original Fly electronics (switches, jack, potentiometers) and 2) a flex PCB complete with all new modern electronics.

We haven’t announced a timeline yet, but we will announce a beta testing program when we’re ready.

For the time being, if you’re stuck, you may want to wire point-to-point, sorry to say.
paulb3d
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by paulb3d »

Thanks so much for the reply!!!
I have resisted the last resort of wiring it point to point. I will do that for now but will definitely purchase a few of the Flex PCBs from you when they are available! Thanks for giving me hope for a hopefully not so distant future solution!

Thanks again,
Paul
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vjmanzo
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Re: Replacement PCB (pre-refined)

Post by vjmanzo »

Not a problem, Paul! Many of us are in the same boat needing these replacements! Our lab is committed to finding a great solution to this problem and we've made lots of progress on this, so we'll keep you and everyone posted!
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